Jonathan Sheldon: The Three Legs of the Entrepreneurial Stool

 

Jonathan Sheldon  00:00 

The lack of people practising their skill, their craft, the different aspects of their business before they're actually in the game, no matter what that game is, is astounding to me. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:09 

And I always say there's kind of like three legs of the stool for an entrepreneur: is you need to have a coach, you need to have an operating system, and you need to have a peer group. And if you have those three things, the sky's the limit. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  00:18 

Have a concrete daily schedule and use non-negotiables, not goals. Do things and commit to those things, even if they're small. Just do small things, but actually accomplish them. It does so much for your mindset. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  00:38 

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Better Business, Better Life. I'm your host, Debra Chantry-Taylor and I'm passionate about helping entrepreneurs lead a better life by creating a better business. I have been working as a coach for some 20 odd years. I have run businesses myself, and I help people to understand how they can use the the structure and the frameworks to create a better business that helps them to live a better life. Because my my thing is that life is too bloody short to be doing anything else. I bring guests onto the show who can actually share real life experiences, people who can actually add some value to your entrepreneurial journey. And I'm very excited today to have a guest who actually spent four years as an inventory squad leader in the Marine Corps. He then went on to run a financial planning business and did that very, very successfully, which led him into coaching. And he now uses his experience from the Marine Corps, from the the corporate kind of financial planning background, to help people really understand their purpose and to get the most out of their life. We're going to talk today about ikigai, sense of belonging and purpose, and the three legs of the entrepreneurial stool. What are the three things that you need to have to lead not only a better business but a better life as well? So please welcome to the show Jonathan Sheldon, who is the owner of BelleauWood Coaching. Lovely to have you here, Jonathan. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  02:06 

So great to be here. Thank you so much. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  02:08 

My absolute pleasure. Hey, look, I notice that you have got a company that is called BelleauWood Coaching, and I have no idea what that means. So I would love for you to share your journey of how you got to where you are today, what you do, and what that what's the meaning of that name? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  02:24 

I I love the question. I appreciate you asking. So first off, thank you for you pronounced it right, which is pretty rare. Most people have no idea how to pronounce Bella Wood. But so Bella Wood is a a forest in France, and in World War One, it's a pretty famous battle that the Marines were involved in, and I was like you and I were chatting before. I was in the Marines in the early 2000s as a infantry squad leader, but the reason that I chose it as a company is actually the story of why the battle is actually famous. So as the story goes, or as the the history record would show, the Army, the the U.S. Army was embedded and entrenched, fighting a German force across this large field and in in the BelleauWood Forest. And they had been there for for at least weeks, and they couldn't break through the line. And this was one of the first times, if not the first time, that the Marines were in an actual land battle. And so the Marines were brought in to reinforce the army, and when they got there, the army commander said, "Don't worry about it. We're actually going to retreat. We can't break through these lines." And the marine commander famously said, "Retreat! Hell, we just got here!" And he ordered a full-on assault, which is very typical marine. And what was really, really impactful about the battle was they ordered a full-on assault, and they ended up the Marines ended up taking they took Hollywood force and defeated the Germans. And why it's an important battle is what was actually written in the German commander's journal. He specifically wrote, "There's a new force from the Americans. Who are these dogs from hell? And that's where the Marines got their nickname, Devil Dog. Now the reason why he said, "Who are these new troops?" Because when the Marines were getting shot and wounded, another Marine would pick him up and carry him forward towards the enemy and not retreat. And that's how I view coaching. A lot of times is when. business gets tough, when we have these growth stages, who's there to pick you up and move forward, forwards towards growth and not retreat. And that's why I chose it as a as a business name. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  04:34 

I love it. I love it. Okay, so tell me a little bit about the Marines. Then, what what took you into the Marines? Like, what what was your original training in life, and how did you get to be a marine? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  04:43 

So I grew up in a really tiny town in upstate New York. Tiny as in I graduated with like 60 people, and at the time, I had this deep burning. You know, was it was early 2004, and. This really famous and pretty distinctive battle in the war in Iraq was it's called the Battle of Fallujah had just played out, and my dad and I were watching the news, and all of the names of the Marines that had died in the battle were popping up on screen. It was their rank, their name, and then their age. And I'll never forget this image when they were scrolling on the screen. They were all like 19 years old, and I'd always had this opinion in my brain. my My grandfather was a Marine, and my uncle was a Marine. That Marines were older, rough dudes, not 19-year-old kids like myself. I was 17 at the time, and from that point on, I would always been really interested in the military because of my family history, but didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had already planned and had to go to college, and I really looked at my dad and was like, "Well, if they were willing to do that, then what makes me any better?" And within the next couple months, I went and signed what's called the delayed entry programme. So I was in the delayed programme until I left a year later, and and just felt like it was calling's a weird way to put it, I guess, but probably just felt like it was a calling of mine that I wanted to go serve. So I did. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:11 

Okay. How long did you serve for? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  06:12 

Oh, four years. Yeah, I did four years, two deployments to Iraq, once as a point man and the next as a infantry squad leader. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:19 

And then once you left the Marines. What what next? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  06:21 

Yeah, so not a real big gap for me. Four and done. I realised that I had I had fulfilled fulfilled what I wanted to do, and I went to college. So about 12 days after I had gotten out of the Marine Corps, I was in my first class. Ended up getting into an internship in my junior year in financial planning, and then I spent the next 14 years in financial planning running my own team, and then ended up becoming a territory director for another company. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:51 

Okay, marine to financial planning. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  06:54 

Yeah, it is. Yeah. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  06:56 

What was it about financial planning that you loved? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  06:58 

I think opportunity. I think if we're being honest, I had never growing up in a really small, impoverished town. I had never seen really wealthy people, and I was surrounded immediately by. I could say it was for some other reason, but really, it was the flexibility, the the fact that you were doing something that really mattered. People were entrusting you with their life savings and hoping that that you that they could retire and that you were going to do a good job for them, that was definitely a part of it. But there was another income part of it too, where it was very hardly hard pitch that you could you know make a great income, make a great impact, and have this really flexible lifestyle by running your own practice. And and all those things were true, a lot harder than they probably anticipated, but all those things were true, and that's really what drew me in. And yeah, that's what drew me in. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  07:49 

Okay. And then, as you said, you kind of worked your way up, and you ended up being kind of the director of a particular state brokerage. What was that like? Because there's a big difference between being a an employee who is a you know a technician, a financial planner who was a technician to actually managing people, managing a business. What was the difference for you? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  08:06 

Yeah, it wasn't too much because all based on relationship, really. You know, as a financial planner, you were you were tasked with building your own book, so they didn't give you a book of business. You you went and found your own, and it was all about relationship. So really, for me, it changed from relationships with clients to relationships with other advisors and helping them grow their books of businesses. And I think that was that was definitely a change. I think the bigger change, truthfully, was just call what it is: clients were vastly more appreciative of the relationship, where other advisors weren't necessarily was more like what could you do for me lately type of type of situation and so where the responsibility was great the development was awesome I think the gratification on the work that you were doing was a little bit little bit less because you weren't client facing anymore if that makes sense. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  09:01 

Okay, and that was then from there. From looking at your CV here, you then went on to start your own practice, your own coaching practice, which again is very, very different. So, what was the what the prompt to do that? Why did you decide to go out on your own? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  09:14 

Awesome question. I had always been. I had I had a coach when I was an individual financial advisor, and I I had. mentored a lot of young financial advisors, and in the role that I was in in that directorship, that's what I really started. As my role grew, that's what I realised I really enjoyed was the development and the mentorship and the coaching of of building other people's businesses. And when I thought back, and as I started growing into it and thinking more as I got older, like what do I really like about what I do, that really started to press on me. And when I started thinking back at my entire career, even back into a Marine, that's what I really loved about the Marines was the the camaraderie, the brotherhood, the the development, seeing people become the best versions. Of themselves, and that's really that's really what drove me to it. So I started. I reached out to a couple advisors that I had mentored and that had a lot of success in the mentoring that I'd given them, and basically just said, "Hey, if I start doing this on a more official level, do you think that this would be something you'd be interested in signing up for? And I think I reached out to six of them, and all six of them said yes, and then I was off to the races. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  10:27 

Okay, perfect. And so, what? Tell me what your version of coaching is. What do you think coaching is really about? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  10:36 

I think coaching at its basic level is a lot like leadership. I think it's about elevating others. You know, a true traditional coach like I've got my professional certified coach through the the International Coaching Federation, and you know, really, it's getting clients to their best version of themselves and getting them to their best answer. Right? We're always striving not to give clients answers. That's more of that consultative mode. And so, I think a really good coach is is a master at diving in and offering offering guidance without giving direction, and at the same time making sure that the onus is always on the client and their stated goal and what they want, like what their actions are going to be pushing forward, and I think a really good coach inspires their clients to action that's meaningful to them, not that's put on a piece of paper that you know you came up with at some point in time. It's it's getting them really bought in and making progress moving forward, not always assessing the past. That's more obviously therapy, but really understanding where we're at and getting them to their ideal, whatever that might be in life and business, etc. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  11:50 

So, what kind of clients do you work with? I'm really fascinated. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  11:52 

Yes, so I work I work with really growth oriented people. So we could, you know, that's super super bland. The industries that I'm really heavily invested in is what I would call small unit leadership, small unit teams. So businesses that really thrive in that. So finance, finance, trades, real estate is a big industry of mine. I like I mentioned before, I work with a few EOS implementers as well, where it's scaling, growing small unit teams, and small unit really for me just means that the owner or the practitioner of the business is also the owner of the business, so they're actively participating in their business. So that could be a small leadership team, that could be an entire business that is relative in size, but generally speaking, like I do work with some pretty large businesses, but I work with a smaller subset of them, right? Or they're 1099 employees, like a financial advisor or a real estate agent, and then I actually work with a couple a sports training companies as well, which has been really really cool work as well. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  12:59 

Okay, and so I mean, how does somebody know that they need some coaching? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  13:04 

I think when they can't find the answer themselves, when when they're really getting, I would say stuck is a bad place because a lot of my clients are not stuck. They're just looking for something more, you know, whether that's more opportunity to get past obstacles, whether that's more growth in their personal professional life, it's it's something more than what they've obtained right now, and they know that you know they need some set of outside perspective that can challenge them to get them to the level that they're going to get without without something that they couldn't do by themselves. I think that's I think that's where generally people come is there's there's some sort of junction that they've hit that it's I need to get to this level I need to get through this obstacle and they've at least tried or thought about it or feel a little bit stuck or unsure and so they're looking for outside guidance and one of the things that I like to talk about is that 30,000 foot view I think going back to your previous question, what makes a great coach? I think a great coach can see see the field or see the forest through the trees, you know, and and can pull themselves out of a situation at 30,000 feet and not get too invested, right? I think that makes a really good coach because it keeps you really objective, and I think that coaches should be very objective. I 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  14:18 

mean, using the sporting analogy and coaches is the easiest one for most people to understand. I mean, every single sporting team has got a coach, and that coach is not a player. They're not in the on the pitch. They're not sort of involved in the game. They're actually looking at it from the outside in. They may not even have been a great sports person themselves per se, but they understand the sport and they understand what winning looks like and how a team should work together, and therefore they offer that outside perspective. It's really interesting. I actually think everybody needs a coach, just like every sporting team does. I think every person does. And I always say there's kind of like three legs of the stool for an entrepreneur: is you need to have a coach, you need to have an operating system, and you need to have a peer group. And if you have those three things, they're very. They're three very very different things, but if you get those three things right, the sky's the limit. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  15:04 

I couldn't agree more. I use this analogy all the time. When one of my friends, when I first got into coaching, he's with my best friend. Actually, was out in Washington State, and he's like, "Like, what? What is this? Like, what do you do?" He's an attorney. He's like, "Like, what do you even do?" I go, "Well, think about." He's like, "Why would why would successful people need somebody like you? That was his real question. And I said, well, think about every like you just mentioned every professional sports athlete. Like I'm in upstate New York, so we're big Bills fans up here. Josh Allen, arguably one of the best quarterbacks in the league, he's got a quarterbacks coach. Why? Because of exactly what you just said. You need somebody that can see outside of what you're doing. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  15:42 

Yeah, absolutely. So I think that if you think about the three legs of the stool, the the coach is definitely that person who's looking from the outside and kind of giving you some feedback and helping you to see what you can't see. Your peer group is is is another one that I'm very very passionate about because I think that it's really lonely sometimes at the top, and I think particularly the people you were talking about, those people who are technicians but also running a business, they have other people potentially in the business who are doing what they do, but they're not the leaders. And so it's like this little lonely pedestal that you're up on. That yeah, who do you talk to? Because you can't talk to them about that. So having that peer group gives you that part of it, and of course the operating system. My passion is, you know, making sure that you've got that that framework to actually help you have some structured, unemotional, pragmatic tools that give you the the ability to make the right decisions. So, yeah, 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  16:33 

I love it. I might even I might even steal that. I love the three-legged stool analogy because I I could not agree more. You, as we were talking about before, I'm a huge fan of EOS. I'm a huge fan of operating systems. That's why I've gravitated towards it when I was first introduced to it about 10 years ago, and I I agree too. I encourage a lot of my clients to find out study groups or peer groups because you need them, right? And honestly, like even for my business, it's just on a just straight business sense, it's it's probably my biggest lead indicator is when a client's inside of another peer group because if we're doing good work together, then they're they're sharing that type of stuff. But from their standpoint, you need other people to vent to, you need other people to to bounce ideas off of, and yeah, great point. I love the three-legged stool analogy. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  17:21 

No, so as a coach, I mean, we talked about. I do believe everybody needs one. When when you first start working with a client, like what is because some people might be thinking, I've never worked with a coach. I don't know what to expect. I hear the analogies. I kind of get it, but I want to know what it really means for me. And so, when you first start working with a client, what are the first steps that you take? Because you're not a therapist. You're not there to kind of take on board all their their issues in the past and whatnot. So what do you do? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  17:46 

Yeah. So my process is is I wouldn't say unique, but for some coaches it feels unique. At least that's the that's the feedback I've gotten. So I start everything with a 15 minute phone call. That's just a just a fit call. Like, do do we even gel at all? And then I give every client a 90-minute consultation on the house, and what that is is what you just described. It's an experience of I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions of what you're trying to accomplish, personally, professionally. We're going to look at where you want to be a year from now. It's just going to be kind of rapid fire, and in those moments, I'm going to start pressing and pressing on the answers that you give because that's really the coaching piece of it is pressure testing a lot of times what those answers are really truly look like. From there, I do what's called I I work with my clients initially on what I call understanding their their performance blueprint. So taking them through a process that I've developed of really understanding them on a much deeper level, not to dive too deep into again that the therapy stuff at all, but really understanding four key aspects that I believe every single person, every high performer needs to understand to be at their best, and also as a coach, it really helps me in the future of our relationship challenge clients if they start getting out of alignment. And so it's really finding, you know, you know what's funny is that most people. One of some sometimes I think some my clients think the most valuable piece of coaching outside of the conversation is just a forced time for 50 minutes to talk with somebody outside of their business about what they truly want and how they want to get there. It's such a rare occurrence that they actually get that space to do that, and then are challenged. Like especially the owners, then are actually challenged on their beliefs, they're challenged on their growth metrics, they're challenged on their, you know, on on obstacles that they might face, and it's diving really deep into the matter of the underneath of some obstacles or underneath of why growth aspects work, and then again, the last piece of it is accountability, which is the biggest part. Right? Can we move forward? Do you have something that's holding you accountable? And instead of just stating a goal and then missing it, or stating a goal and having endless meetings about it, do is there somebody in your life that's pressure testing your accountability metrics constantly? And those, you know, I meet with my clients specifically, every other week, you've got somebody that if you state a goal that you created, and it has to be every action has to be created by the client. Are you on track for it? What went wrong? What went right? What got in the way? And a lot of people usually brush off delays or incomplete goals with something got in the way, whatever, and they never really think about it. But coach is going to make you diagnose it. You know, just like that sports analogy, we're going to make you a better thrower. We're going to make you a better kicker. Why? Because we're going to constantly be putting the things that you've stated you want to accomplish underneath a microscope. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  20:57 

Kind of sounds like a level 10 meeting for you personally, doesn't it? In terms of you know, what are we trying to achieve? What's what's working? What's not working? Yeah, I'm going to actually go back to kind of EOS because you did say that you came across it and you used it in a business kind of 10 years ago. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  21:11 

Absolutely. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  21:12 

Yeah. What was your experience of that, and how do you feel that EOS helped within that business? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  21:18 

Yeah. So the last financial planning firm that I was one of the directors of. We we used it for 10 years, so I used it for extended period of time. I I personally kind of love it because it's I'm a I'm an operational kind of guy. I I want deep down for me. I want direction. I think a lot of times, and I think EOS gives you that structure. Like you've you've you've, you know, that operating system. So I think the focus days are remarkably important. I think the L 10s. I actually love the timer of how everything's timed and you you stay on track because I that might be one of the bigger impacts. It may seem small, but man, for anybody listening, how many how many times have you been on a corporate call or a and you talk about one super insignificant thing because can't nobody can agree on it for 45 minutes and everybody walks away like well that was a waste of time. I I can honestly say I don't think I've ever been in a real EOS session that, especially had an implementer that I could honestly say was a waste of time because it followed a structure, and that's how personally my brain works. Is oh okay, there's something to do here, and you know if it's not something that you're going to IDS, it's like let's move on. You know, if we're not going to solve this thing, let's move on to the next thing, which is definitely my personality. So for me, it's it's a structure system that I've really enjoyed and connected with immediately, honestly. But I think that's the biggest thing for me with the OS that I really appreciate. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  22:58 

Yeah, and I guess it's sort of similar to your personal coaching. It's like you know. I think a lot of people think that coaching is a little bit like a therapist is going to talk to somebody once a week and kind of see where things are at. But obviously, there is structure to that as well, and and it's important that you actually have a structure. Every meeting should have a structure. Every meeting should have a kind of desired outcome. And I think you're right that, especially if you're the business owner, there's very few people who are sort of genuinely holding you accountable for what you want to achieve in your life outside of the business. EOS gives you the framework for the business, but how are you actually making sure that you're getting there? And I was just talking to my last guest, and we were talking about the fact you know living an intentional life. A lot of us just tend to bumble along, and it's just this is what we've always done. We haven't got any sort of real purpose, and and I think when you start to get really clear on your intentions and what you want to achieve, then you can start to really change the way that you do things. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  23:52 

100% agree. Absolutely. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  23:54 

I'm really curious. Is there because I know I did a lot of work many many years ago working with people around their self-limiting beliefs and what was kind of holding them back. Is there any kind of common themes that you see working with the types of entrepreneurial business owners that you work with? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  24:08 

Yeah, I find daily daily focus to be something that a lot of a lot of business owners really struggle with. A lot of CEOs and executives really struggle with. That's that's one thing that is pretty universal. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  24:23 

Give me some context on that. So, what what are you saying that they are they're too big picture? They're not so good at the sort of the the daily stuff. What does it mean? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  24:31 

I find well, yeah, maybe you'll agree or not agree. I I find more people drastically shift are are more are more visionaries than they are integrators. I run into vastly more visionaries, and I think that can be a problem when we've got these great ideas, but we're we're not we're we're not maybe implementing them, but also we're getting pulled in so many directions, especially with the type of people that I meet with. Whether it's a leader of a team, a director of sales somewhere, a business owner, right? CEO, they've got so many things that are pulling their attention, and on a daily, a lot of them are good on like a weekly and quarterly basis, depending on how they're structured, because they have that vision of like what's in it, right? But on a daily basis, a lot of them, what I find is they lose the ability to prioritise the most important things that they have to do every single day, and they have a hard time. Like we've talked about that word accountability, finding people that will hold them accountable to that on a daily basis. Most of people don't feel comfortable doing that, and they've never set up a structure that allows for that. So that's where I think setting up systems, Operating systems accountability really really really helps and then the other thing I would say is probably this is why I love your three legged analogy because the next one I would say is ecosystem I think a lot of people that I run into do not have a great at once they get to the the level that they're at they don't have a great ecosystem anymore unless they go actively search for it, it kind of disappears. They've they've reached a level where he starts becoming a little bit lonely, and maybe they have some friends to vent to, but never that anything structured. And from my standpoint, ecosystem or environment that you surround yourself with, and especially in 2026, where it's not just five people that you surround yourself with. It's now technology. It's now physical space. You know, because there's so many more options. I find that that a lot of people struggle with too is is finding the right ecosystem to thrive in when they when they get to a certain stage. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:34 

Do you also find that with entrepreneurs, you know, they get so kind of engrossed in the business that they sometimes lose their own self sense of purpose. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  26:42 

You just nailed the last one. Yeah, purpose for sure. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  26:45 

Okay. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  26:46 

So this workshop that I do, you know, the first thing that we go over is purpose, and the workshop is specifically designed for a personal performance blueprint. On purpose and vision, they're not allowed to talk about their work at all. We have to define those things, in my opinion, before we ever get to the purpose of the vision. Sorry, the purpose of the business, the vision for the business. You know, which again, you know, on the on the VTO, you guys, you know, you guys handle a lot of. But we have to define that for themselves first, and so that's where that distinguishing is. Is that's why it's one of the first things I go over with them because you're right, and it's so challenging for them to do that. It is by far the longest piece of the exercise, by far the longest piece, and because they always always drift, even when they're sitting in a room, if it's even just a one-on-one, and they've been given strict suggestions or directions, they always drift back into business. Just like you said, they get so involved with it that it's a, it's a, it's can can one live without the other? You know, I don't, I don't know. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  27:52 

I I don't think that. I mean, we always talk about sort of you know work life balance, but I think for entrepreneurs, it's not a balance. It's about having the right mix, and and they are they are intrinsically linked because what we do is kind of driven by what our personal purpose is. But I think sometimes we can lose sight of it, or sometimes we just fall into a business without really understanding what what it is that actually drives and motivates us. And I think that the the EOS operating system gives the sort of the business a structure and a framework, but I think sometimes we lose ourselves, and it's like, so why am I doing this? And if you don't have a really strong personal purpose, it can be easy to kind of almost resign yourself to, you know, just going with the way that it is, rather than challenging the way that you're doing things. Does that make sense? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  28:40 

It does make sense, yeah, absolutely, yeah. And that you brought up a great point of the the balance where it is so just struggle for entrepreneur to to really feel. I don't even really use it. I I know it's a small distinction, but I I call it just it's counterbalance. I feel like most people when they think of balance, they think of this like very set thing where I need to be home by this. Yeah, exactly. They need to be owned by this or that. It's like no, no, no. If you look at any picture with a guy in a tightrope, he's always got this long pull, and it's always these micro adjustments, right? That's the counterbalance, and that is the life of an entrepreneur. Truthfully, is finding what what day requires what time, and then from there, you know, going back to your last question, what do they struggle with? Sometimes communicating those expectations of what what things require, 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  29:24 

yeah, and you're right. It is there's a micro balance, and there's all these little adjustments, and it's like, and there's no right or wrong answer. Again, I I was brought up in. I'm 56 years old now, just turned that a couple of weeks ago, and I was brought up in a very traditional kind of family environment where being an entrepreneur was not even on the cards. It was like you know you went to university, you got yourself a degree, you went into a career, you worked for the man, you got married, you had children, you had a dog and a picket fence, and and that was kind of life, and that was it. And I think that it was it was kind of instilled in you right from the early days. But when you're an entrepreneur. Business is my passion, and it's absolutely what I love to do. Like you said, there's no, it's not about going nine to five Monday to Friday. Some weeks, I've just finished a really massive week from travelling to New Zealand, to Perth, to back to here, and done four client sessions in a row. And then this next week, I might take it really a little bit easier, and I might have less things to do. Sometimes I might work 12 hours in a day, and other times I might go fuck this. I've had enough. I'm going to knock off and take a bit of an afternoon off and have some time for myself. So there isn't a there isn't a right way to do it. And I think often we we do we get brought up with all this like this is what it should be like. I hate that word should. Why should anything be anything? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  30:37 

Preach, and I think, and you know, not first off, thanks for breaking thanks for breaking the seal on the old F word. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:44 

I'm British, four winnings and a few lovers in that movie. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  30:47 

This weight slips it off of my chest now. I've been holding him in. No, oh no, 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  30:50 

don't, please don't. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  30:52 

Yeah, social media, I think, is is exacerbated that so bad. Where you're getting caught in so many directions of, oh, I should be doing this now. I should be doing this now. I should be doing this now. It's like ah, no, chill out. Like do what do what works and stop chasing the next shiny object. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  31:09 

It's really fun. I'm going to share something with you. I was working with a. I mostly with slightly larger business, but I was working with a small business. In fact, my podcast editor. He'll be listening to this, and I remember he he came in and he said he said to me, you know, I really really you know, want to get the Rolex watch, and I said, "Why do you use a watch?" He's like, "No." I said, "So why would you want to want the Rolex?" Well, you know, because that that just shows that I'm kind of successful. It's like, "But do you use a watch?" He's like, "No." He's like, "So why do you need a watch?" He's like, "This is ridiculous." I mean, I personally do have a nice watch, but I also really enjoy watches. I have a really nice car because I really enjoy cars, but I don't do it for the the recognition that comes with it. It's because I really enjoy it. There are other things I would never waste time or money because it's not for me. So I think there is there is this real danger. I think you're right. Social media is terrible for that because people see like I mean I have people who yeah who follow people who are working from a beach in Bali and and only working four hours a day supposedly. First of all, I question if that's truly legit or not. And secondly, is that what you want? Because personally, I could think of nothing worse than being in Bali working four hours a day on a laptop. It's I like people, I like being around people. So I think that this is where we can sometimes lose sense of our true self. Like, what's important to you? What you really want? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  32:22 

Couldn't agree more. And and there's no way that that's that's real life either. It's it's all just for it's all for the gramme. You know, there's no way. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  32:28 

Yeah, yeah. Well, I think some people maybe do have it, but I think you've got to be very very careful. There's a there's a curated version. I try and be a little bit more honest in my social media, but not all the time. You know, without a doubt, when we write things for social media. We are thinking about our brand. We're thinking about what it does for us. So even when we share some of the authentic, real stuff, it's still in a curated format, right? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  32:51 

Well, and that's and you brought up a good point. What I'm truly for me, it's like for me when I when I want to disconnect, I wouldn't I wouldn't even might leave my laptop at home. That's my personal choice. Like when I when I'm working, I'm working. When I'm not, I'm not. And so, sitting on a beach doing work four hours in the morning, it doesn't sound attractive to me because for me, I wouldn't be able to turn it off. It would be now. I'm now I'm back in work mode. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  33:14 

I want to be on a beach, actually enjoying a beach, being on a jet ski, going off and doing some scuba diving, doing all that kind of stuff. Okay, cool. So the work that you do with people is around helping them to understand what that passion is, helping to keep them accountable, helping them with their sort of you know their their stuff, not not outside of the business, but alongside the business. What is it that you you personally want to do as well? I noticed on your website, you know, you've you've talked about the Ikigai model. I love that model. Do you want to share a little bit about you know that that for us in terms of what that, how you use that and what it means? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  33:47 

Yeah. So for for those unfamiliar, ikigai is you know loosely translated to the reason for being, and it's separated in Japanese to well, at least there's there's debate on this a little bit, but you know what are you good at? What do you like to do? What can you be paid for? And what does the world need? And that is purpose. You know, I I don't know if all of those things all equal. I think, especially you know, what can you be paid for? I I think that is great when we're talking about careers and businesses and things like that, and I I understand the reason that it exists there, but for me we've got to start with some assemblance of again what what are you here to do what what do you exist to do there was actually a good documentary on was actually on Blue Zones, and they interviewed this Japanese basket maker. And one of the the points of of the TV shows, the TV show, was why are people living longer? And I think there's been some debate on that recently. I haven't done much research on it in the last couple months, but this sense of blue. Belonging and the sense of purpose of constantly being of value and seeing that you're like you're doing something for your community, I think is massive. And when we start talking about that word purpose, we take that Ikigai model and we start breaking it into categories of what are you good at, what do you like to do. I think those two questions are massively important for people, and we often forget that when we we have this sense of joy and the sense of passion, the sense of purpose for what we're doing, you're going to get better results from it, and you're going to feel better. You know, I think that's one of the things that entrepreneurs and we just don't talk about enough is being happy with what you do. It seems so simple, but at the it's really not. It's really and for somebody that like financial planning was very good to me. I met a lot of people that a lot a lot of my clients are financial advisors. I love that industry truthfully. It just wasn't my passion, you know. And no matter what, it was never really going to, because my time wasn't always spent doing that, and I think that's where the Ikigaian model really starts to play into what I do. Is let's get let's get to the things that we want to do more of consistently. Like let's do those things that you like to do. What you can. What does the world need? What and what are you what you're good at? Like at least those three. Let's really dive into those. And if you can get paid to do it, score. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  36:31 

Yeah, I think make a really important point too. I think sometimes going back going back to this should going back to the conditioning that we have when we're brought up. I think sometimes we think, well, you know, I can't change because I'm X Y Z age, and I've been doing it for this amount of time, or I don't know anything else. I'm very, very fortunate, and also very grateful. I mean, I've I'm a biochemist by trade. I'm also a food technologist. I know I have done so many different things in my life, and and what I've been able to do, fortunately, and I'm not quite sure how, is when I haven't felt happy or haven't felt fulfilled, I've got okay. Let's have a look at this and let's change. Well, I think sometimes it's it's a scary thing to do because you know, well, you know what? But I should just continue with this because it's what I do. But I I always say life is too bloody short, right? You can't. You're only on this planet for I don't know a short period of time, and you've only got one chance. And so if you're ever sitting there, kind of going, "I hate my job. I hate the people I'm with. I hate my relationship," you can change it. You know, you you either live with it or you change it. And if you're going to live with it, shut up whinging. If you want to change it, look at how you can do that. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  37:34 

Absolutely, yeah. And that's actually really that's kind of a fascinating background too. The the The thought of change for people is scary. Call it what it is. You know, it's people love. A lot of people thrive in the known, and the unknown is really terrifying. That's why you know I like. There's this is going to be a really weird example, but you know, if you've ever gone camping or spending time in the woods, the woods can be no matter how long you've been there. When you're alone out there, the the fear that you can only see 10 feet in front of you is unnerving, and I think that's what a lot of people run into. Kind of to your point, is this this dreadful of the unknown of of taking a chance because most people have never done that from the get go, so it's this very foreign thing for them to even comprehend. Of well, I I I grew up this way. I went to school for this. I do this now, you know, and that that change of modality is is tough for people. It really is. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  38:35 

Yeah, but that's where a coach can be, you know, integral in terms of actually helping you to to understand what is possible, and I think, as I said, if you think about what's possible, but then what's holding you back, and sometimes it's it's just like I mean, just like using an implementer in in EOS for your business. It's really really hard to be in the business, be trying to run the EOS process, trying to facilitate conversations, trying to be objective because you're in it, and on a personal level, it's also really hard when you're in your life doing what you do to actually lift yourself up out of it and really see it from a different perspective. And that's what coaching is really all about, isn't it? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  39:13 

I would agree. Beautifully said. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  39:15 

Hey, how much do you bring in your marine background into your coaching? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  39:19 

More now. When I first started, not much. I strayed away from it, and I had many clients really challenge me on that. I would say I would always apologise, like, "Hey, I'm going to bring in a military story or a Marine Corps attribute here," and they'd be like, "Please do." And so, I've got I got that feedback probably about a year and a half ago. So now, enough, especially in like decision making models, and you know, call move you know move in the moment, or or really some of the not wouldn't call them programmes, but methodologies that I developed have all been brought in from from kind of like the Marine Corps method of doing it, and now I spend a lot of. Time thinking more of how do you take that that those types of systems and bring them into something that's actually applicable. Most of stuff in the military, we want to believe that it's really applicable in the civilian world, but it's just not. And the reason for that is because in the military there really isn't a choice. You you do right, and so where a lot of these military methods really break down is when you have an entire organisation with people that have choice. Some of the some of the guidelines don't work, so I think that's the challenge that we all have to face: is making sure that it's it's doable. And most of the stuff that I really appreciate and what I pull from the military is how to do things faster, how to do things in the moment, because that's really when it matters. Doing things like, again, using a sports analogy, a military analogy, practising the the lack of people practising their skill, their craft, the different aspects of their business before they're actually in the game, no matter what that game is, is astounding to me when all the best practitioners on the planet practice far more than they play. You know, and more than just sport, right? I before I ever stepped foot in Iraq, I cleared 1000 fake houses. So when it actually becomes the reality, you just do instead of think, or yeah, you do instead of think, and that's what that's to answer your question. That's the the things that I focus in a lot on bringing those into my coaching is those aspects of hey, what does work? What works in the moment? What actually works when it matters? 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:34 

Beautiful. Hey, look, I'm sure we could talk for a long, long time about you know all these things around coaching and operating systems and whatnot, but time is of the essence. Um, three top tips or tools, John. What would you say for people listening in who are going? You're going, yeah, actually, maybe I need to explore a bit more. What would you say your three top tips or tools are? 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  41:51 

First tip would be pay attention to your time. I think most people need to do more time audits. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  41:56 

Okay. Yeah. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  41:58 

I think we talked about one. well, which is or in depth, and that's really understand your purpose and what you're bought into. I think it's in and keep it in front of you, not just write it on a piece of paper or do one exercise and then forget about it. Like keep it in front of you, and then the the third the third tip would be, don't have a have a concrete daily schedule and use non-negotiables, not goals. Do things and commit to those things, even if they're small. That will snowball vastly better than just crunching work at the end of the month and get just do small things, but actually accomplish them. It does so much for your mindset, does so much for your business, does so much for your life. Create non-negotiables. I teach people to do three. That's my tip. Create three non-negotiables every single day. One of them has to be personal. One be business, and then one be a flex. And do those things every single day. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  42:58 

I love it, and that kind of ties back into that practice, right? Because if you're doing it every single day, and the laser sharp focus that we teach within the business as well, three is my is my magic number. I think yeah, that's I think it's been proven that three is is a number that most people can kind of cope with. So I love it. I love all of it. Yeah. Okay. So pay attention to your time. Make sure you're doing a time audit. Don't waste your time. Understand your purpose. Keep it in front of you. Find ways not just to sort of stick on a piece of paper, but how do you bring it into your life on a daily basis and have a concrete daily schedule where you've got small things that are committed to that are non-negotiable that you achieve, which rewards that success thing, doesn't it? Because I see it in business too. If you can get some wins and get some ticks, it just it builds the energy. It makes you feel like it's doable as opposed to what you can't. So, absolutely love it. Hey John, really, really enjoy chatting to you. We're going to put your contact details and things into the podcast notes. If you want to get in contact with John, I would highly recommend it. His details would be there. As I said, I'm a big big believer that every single person needs a coach, no matter where you are in your life. It's going to make you go faster, and and I highly encourage that. 

 

Jonathan Sheldon  43:59 

Yeah, I agreed. Thank you, Debra. 

 

Debra Chantry-Taylor  44:01 

No, my absolute pleasure. Thank you, John.